This was a great episode, IMNEHO. We got more Dan reveal - rain-soaked Dan is very nice indeed. Snogging Dan would have been nicer though. (No whining, Carmen. I said there would be spoilers here.) It was good that we got a mention of Janelle this week, even if we didn't see her. Unlike some other shows CP has appeared on, the girl doesn't vanish with no explanation after one outing (all those poor women might as well have been wearing red shirts and phase pistols). And I like Janelle. Maybe they should keep her in the picture for awhile.

My November schedule from Lifetime is listing all shows as TBA so I guess they're still recovering from virus outbreak and electrical outage setbacks in the shooting schedule.

CP is still garnering support on the Lifetime page, although that new kid is doing very well with the (much) younger fans. I'm beginning to feel sorry for the girl who plays Taylor. She hands in a solid performance every week and she's never mentioned by the fans at all.
I guess the show isn't reaching boys in the 12-20 demographic .

>No whining, Carmen. I said there would
>be spoilers here.

Whining? Who's whining? As if I'd ever do that. All's fair in love and war and somehow I need to get my information. If whining helps, I'll do it.
>
Thanks for the spoiler Pan. Lol, I don't need to mention that it was way to short, do I? I already wondered why nobody on this board discusses the weekly episodes. There must be more members other than you and JG who know the show and actually like it.


>My November schedule from Lifetime is listing all shows as
>TBA so I guess they're still recovering from virus outbreak
>and electrical outage setbacks in the shooting schedule.
>
Since we always get the complete, finished seasons on German TV I don't know anything. But I thought, since Wild Card seems to be pretty successful, this delay might be an attempt to get the new season into the spring season.
Probably just a illusional wish so we also get the show. The German boards I know, who include new american shows as a main topic don't even mention Wild Card.

Carmen

I already wondered why
>nobody on this board discusses the weekly episodes. There
>must be more members other than you and JG who know the show
>and actually like it.
>>Carmen

[font size=3] There is a very good, "unofficial" Yahoo discussion group for Wild Card and I think some of us feel more comfortable getting down and silly and maybe not even being completely politically correct in that group. It's an open group that the moderator announced on the WC message board. The announcement was immediately pulled by the WC moderator, so many people may not have seen it. It's a very fun place to visit if anyone is interested.

I'm really enjoying WC. I even agree with JG that Dan is every bit as appealing as Tom Ryan. I do like the slightly more shady side of Dan - exthief and all.
Barb

>There is a very good, "unofficial" Yahoo
>discussion group for Wild Card and I think some of us feel
>more comfortable getting down and silly and maybe not even
>being completely politically correct in that group.

Thanks Barb. Of course I'm already a member of this group. You don't think I'd miss the fun, do you? No seriously, this is an aspect which is quite understandable. I just thought that it's a really strange thing and somehow it's allways the same. As long as CP's newest projects aren't aired there is always a lot talking about it, but as soon as it is published there are just a few fans who voice their opinion. I just wondered since this is more or less the CP related board sooner or later nearly every fan finds.

Carmen

I just
>thought that it's a really strange thing and somehow it's
>allways the same. As long as CP's newest projects aren't
>aired there is always a lot talking about it, but as soon as
>it is published there are just a few fans who voice their
>opinion. I just wondered since this is more or less the CP
>related board sooner or later nearly every fan finds.
>
>Carmen

[font size=3] That's an interesting observation. Maybe it has to do with knowing that CP has been known to lurk here - the nerve of that man!}> x(

When KFTLC was running, every 'morning after' there were long discussions on everything from the plot to dress and hair length. KF was one of those shows that thrived on the angst of the characters and that was great material for these discussions.

Dr. David was a more complex character, also, and much was written on his trials and tribulations. Too bad they didn't focus on the more important issues and give him a chance to shine.

Several of Chris's projects since KFTLC have not really allowed him to develop much character. How serious can you get when your costar is a spider? Or you're handcuffed to a bed and at that point nobody cares if you can act or not. :9

I like that Wild Card has a lot of light comedy and a bit of serious stuff and all the characters are growing. If it stays around for a while, CP may even get to stretch his acting talents.

I'm still waiting for the definitive Chris Potter performance. I know it's out there.

Barb

Well, I think the reason there is not more talk about Wild Card is due to the fact that it's a piece of crap. The writing sucks, the acting stinks, and the characters are both unbelievable and not worth caring about. To base an entire story around such an implausible leading character and situation as "Zoe" is just plain stupid, even for Lifetime. I won't repeat my complete rant about the premise of a piece of trash like Zoe virtually taking over the investigative unit of a major insurance company but let's face facts, this isn't supposed to be a science fiction/fantasy show. As for Chris playing Dan, well, all I can say is that I desperately hope he took this part because his chidren need braces or something because if he took it of his own free will he needs serious help. Dan is a mewling, mealy-mouthed, sniveling, crawling jerk. He turns my stomach when he goes mincing after Zoe, begging her to enlighten him about the case or life. Puh-leeeze!!! It's nauseating in the extreme. The children are a waste of space and Rae Dawn Chong might as well stay home for all her character gets to do. But Chris is a major disappointment. And please don't give me the "well it proves what a good actor he is that he can play such a weasel" line. It proves he has taken a loser role and he should be ashamed of it. This last episode is my last episode. To see him abjectly abase himself at the feet of that trashy skank has become too much to watch. There are better things to watch than this contemptible piece of crap. I understand the weather channel is on 24/7. Just MHO of course.

Laurence

Hey, hey, hey!!

I really like Dan. He's sincere, unpretentious and not egotistical, somewhat laid-back (especially in terms of temperament), not aggressive in an annoying way (such as being ruthlessly ambitious, greedy, or a corporate ladder-climber), seems generous and patient, and lately he has even shown an appealing sense of humor and playfulness that isn't too juvenile, etc. He's my kind of guy. He reminds me of Tom quite a bit. I like the "average, mature, nice guys". These are the guys whom I personally hang out with, and would be interested in.

By contrast, Peter Caine is a whining, overly dramatic, tantrum-throwing kid who needs to always be the center of attention. I don't like him. Doctor Dave is a pretentious, self-righteous, predominently humorless twit whom I wouldn't give the time of day because it would make me ill just witnessing his vapid attempts to come off as a "renaissance man". (A real renaissance man is the guy who creates something, not the guy who has a job that pays well enough to consume what the renaissance man creates).

I prefer watching Chris playing the kind of guy I like (ie, Tom, Dan), rather than the kind of guy that repulses me (ie, Peter, David), regardless of the content of the show.

And as a TV show, Wild Card is not something I would watch if Chris wasn't on it. No, the show is not up to my standards in terms of writing and other production values. It's not my cup of tea in that regard. But very few TV productions are. For example, I think that QAF is pretty much a piece of dung. And Silk Stalkings was the same, except for one particular episode (Night of the Parrot) that was just totally off-the-wall in a good way. Kung Fu was mediocre at best.

But Dan, I like. Even if I were to entertain what I find to be an overly and unfairly simplistic depiction of him as just a doormat to an annoying woman, I still wouldn't find that as unappealing as you do. I would tend to look at that and say "Wow, look at what a nice guy he is! Here is a woman who is annoying, albeit not in an intentional way, and look at how patient, generous, and even affectionate he is to her. Now, that's a great guy". (And as an aside, I'm sure you'd have the exact same impression of Silk Stalkings' "Cassie" as you do of Zoey, and consequently the exact same impression of "Tom" as you do of "Dan", since Tom was equally as accomodating of Cassie's horrendous flaws. But to me, Tom is sheer perfection). I have never judged a person by whom he chooses to love, but rather, by the qualities of that specific person. It wouldn't matter to me if Zoey were even more of a repulsive wretch than you depict her (and frankly, I'm not at all thrilled with her either. If I had to pick a love interest for Dan, it definitely wouldn't be her). Dan would still be a great guy to me regardless of how he feels about Zoey, because Dan himself is a great guy in my book.

>Hey, hey, hey!!
>I really like Dan.... He reminds me of Tom quite a bit.

"Hey hey hey" is right! It's an insult to the character of Dan Lennox to compare him to that wimpy, toady character called Tom Ryan, whose only role in the Silk Stalkings' universe was to fawn - and bend - over for his shrewish, silicone enchanced ex-wife.

Elise

That depiction of Tom Ryan is even more overly and unfairly simplistic than Laurence's assessment of Dan. We don't really know as much about Dan to date as we do about Tom, and Dan is clearly a secondary character, so it's more difficult to defend criticism of Dan as being little more than a mindless foil for Zoey. (But given Dan's blossoming sense of humor, and more history about his character as we've especially gotten in the last EP, a defense is indeed justified).

But with Tom, the defense is very easy. Tom was a lead, not a secondary, character, and that definitely puts him on an equal footing with Janet Gunn's character. At least in the first couple Wild Card EP's, Dan was looking like Zoey's "assistant" (and not a valuable one at that). Your depiction of Tom Ryan is actually more apropos to Dan, if apropos at all.

Furthermore, Tom Ryan had more talent than any other CP character. Tom was a musician who actually played an instrument (with apparently some skill) and wrote music. That alone gives him quite an edge over any of the other CP characters in terms of the depth of his character because he shows a level of dedication (ie, musicians with any skill typically spend more time practicing those skills than doctors go to med school -- think about it) and more sophisticated level of mental activity. (Several studies have already shown a correlation between musical aptitude and higher math/logic/rational skills. It's no mere fluke that an unusually large percentage of engineers and other scientific sorts happen to be amateur musicians). Perhaps that's why Tom Ryan has solved more cases than Dan has, and didn't need his dad to save his butt like Peter Caine did every week.

Tom had a great sense of humor. He had a more biting sarcastic wit than most other CP characters, especially Peter Caine (who was way too morose and had much too low self-esteem) and Doctor Dave (who was far too pompous to be funny). He was definitely a clever guy who wasn't afraid to get a good dig in (especially at Cassy). I'm not sure that Dan has yet reached the point where he would feel brave enough to say to Zoey some of the things that Tom said to Cassy. Again, your depiction of Tom is probably more apropos to Dan in this regard.

And of course, Tom had all of those same attributes that I like about Dan. He was a sweetheart, and rather patient and generous and not egotistical, etc.

And let's not forget that Tom was drop-dead gorgeous. You could not find a prettier man if you tried. (Thankfully, he didn't go to Doctor Dave's barber).

Tom is perfect. Tom is a god. End of story.

JG,

Friend, I can't tell you with what horror I read your statement that the fabled Tom Ryan character is very similar to Dan Lennox. If that's true I no longer regret never having met Tom. Any character that has any resemblence to Dan is not someone I want to meet. Dan is hideous enough without having clones cloud the picture even more. I try to admire your generosity of spirit in seeing Dan as a nice guy but I can't make the leap. I find people who are "nice" at the cost of their self respect to be the kind of people I want to avoid. I can't like or respect people who don't respect themselves and Dan is totally guilty of that. His spineless reactions to Zoe and that awful secretary just make him repulsive in my eye. His mewling comments, his eye batting attempts at cuteness, his smarmy personality, his lack of intelligence, and his lack of a backbone all combine to make a character that I could well have lived without seeing. That he won't stand up for himself to me indicates a person who would not stand up for a friend or a principle but would instead cravenly crawl to the feet of a harpy like Zoe and beg for the privilege of kissing her ###!! People who do not actively resist people like Zoe make my blood boil. That a woman with the fashion sense of a three dollar crack whore and the personality of a rabid dog could come into a major company and virtually take over the running of a department while the "professionals" stand by with downcast eyes and slack jawed responses means that those "professionals" are even worse than the utterly disgusting Zoe. I see nothing laid back, or generous, or nice in such a response. I only see someone who deserves as much contempt as Zoe, maybe even more.

You said in a post in the thread that is supposedly from Chris that it was difficult to explain why people see things so differently and I agree with that. I read your comments, and the comments of other friends on this board, about Wild Card and I keep asking myself are we all watching the same show. While almost everyone here seems to find the show tolerable, if not enjoyable, I find myself screaming obscenities at the screen and being thoroughly in a blue funk by the time the episode is over. I throw pillows at the TV while the show is on since I've learned from bitter experience a Lalique figurine thrown at a television is not a good idea. I think for me the central problem is that I see Zoe as a bully, a loud mouthed, brash, totally unappealing bully who makes the lives of everyone with whom she comes into contact miserable and I see Dan as someone who should and could stop her in her tracks but instead spinelessly submits to her hectoring, offensive, despicable personality and that just makes him equally despicable in my eyes. You see him as being a nice guy. I see him as being cowardly and crawling. But that's what makes the world interesting and, after all, this is just a silly television show on a third rate cable network that specializes in really bad television.

I suppose I'm glad that Chris, if indeed it was Mr. Potter who posted that message, gets along with the other cast members and is having a nice life but that doesn't change my opinion of the show or of his participation in it. I personally hope that WC doesn't have a long life because I can't see it doing his career any good at all unless he wishes to be forever trapped in the Lifetime B movie actor stable where as a man he will only be able to play two types of characters. One as the dumb, silly man who can't do his job without the help of the all-knowing woman (which is what he is doing now), or else be the evil, sadistic rapist who preys on the virginal, innocent good woman and then be hunted down by the same woman and brought to justice. Neither of which I would like to see him doing ad infinitum. Maybe there is a decent movie in his future, or a decent television series, or at least a better "card" than the one he has currently been dealt.

Laurence

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Oct-13-03 AT 07:28 PM (GMT)]It's interesting you should mention the possible confusion of shows, Laurence. As I've read your posts, I've found myself wondering what channel you were really watching. A lot of your descriptions sound like any number of network sitcoms to me. What I guess is really going on is that you're watching the show through a different filter than I am. When my husband finally broke down and began to read my well-worn and much loved collection of John D. MacDonald paperbacks, he laughed his head off because he was hearing the old noir narrator voice in his head. (If anybody read them in this millenium, they'd probably laugh because they are so sexist.) He changed his mind, but it took awhile.

It's my belief that the creators made Zoe so Wal-Martesque because she's modeled after Erin Brockovich (I think I read that somewhere). Trashy waitress makes good. Real life girl hero. The stuff upon which Lifetime is built.

And yes, if you hate Dan, you'd probably hate Tom. My husband sat through half an ep of SS with me and finally walked out saying, "what a wimp". And yet I still let him live in my house with me. Go figure.

What else I wonder is, why expend so much energy hating the show? Unless you just enjoy throwing stuff at your televion, why not watch HBO instead? Rent a video. Turn the TV off and go visit your grandmother. Or I could loan you some of my John D. paperbacks...

Pan,

Many thanks for the offer of the John D. novels but I think I'll pass. I tried reading one once and was appalled. I rather doubt time would have changed my response, lol.

Actually I have stopped watching WC. The Oct. 4th episode was the last for me. Since David and I always go out for dinner on Saturday night this means no more having to bother taping it so I could watch it Sunday afternoon. This past weekend's episode went untaped and so will the rest of them. Like everyone here I had high hopes for new CPTV but for me it has been a major disappointment. My "filter" is obviously on a different setting and that's just that. I stuck it out as long as I did hoping with each episode Dan would develop a personality or a backbone or, vain hope, both. But that didn't happen. And while I would have liked new CPTV I can be content with the old QAF and KFTLC tapes and with characters I like and respect. And it will be so much better for my blood pressure, not to mention that I think the boys picked up a few exotic phrases they heard me yelling at the TV and have shared them with their friends. Not good, lol. And since you concur with JG that Tom and Dan are so similar I will cease to care whether or not SS is ever re-broadcast or make available on tape/DVD. Maybe your husband and I could go out for a drink sometime though, lol. Sounds like we might get along.

Laurence

What? No offer to make your beloved Gran a pitcher of your favorite libation? Young man, I am disappointed.

TTFN,
Alliterative Lori

BTW, Lalique-hurling will *not* be in the next Olympics...

The lovely Lori said:

... Lalique-hurling will *not* be in the next Olympics...

Now that IS a shame because I'm damn good at it!!!! }> Granted my first target was a smirking despot prancing around on the deck of an aircraft carrier in military drag celebrating the slaughter of thousands of innocent men, women, and children but I still think I could have brained Zoe, if that's not a contradiction in terms. David tried to be angry at me but since it gave him the excuse to buy the plasma TV he'd been drooling over for weeks he got over it real fast. Not sure he would have been so forgiving if he'd lost the new TV because of Ms. Fisher. :+

Fear not, Gran was over Sunday for lunch and then spent the afternoon with us during which two pitchers of my finest concotions were consumed. She's such a love. She listened to both boys describe their respective football games of the past week play by play by play. And I mean play by play by play by play by play by play......... She'll be 94 in two weeks and I'm working on the ultimate martini for the celebration.

Laurence

Art thou into the "flavored" martinis -- apple and etc? I have never, but I have read about a "chocolate" one somewhere... Since that particular substance is the way into many a female's heart, 'tis a passing thought.

Then again, there's always standing on a train platform w/ a pitcher of gin while someone on a passing train holds a bottle of vermouth w/ the top off out the window and you mentally direct the fumes into the pitcher. :7

TTFN,
Alliterative Lori

* SHUDDER *

Flavored martinis are the product of a seriously deranged mind. Gran would disinherit me in a heartbeat if I gave her one of those, and I'm pretty sure David would divorce me. We're purists when it comes to the drink of the gods. But I do like your passing train recipe. I'm currently buying a bottle of vermouth, placing it next to the shaker, breaking the seal then returning it to the drinks cupboard. It's sort of the same idea without having to find a passing train. :7

Laurence

My husband sat through half an ep of SS with me and finally
walked out saying, "what a wimp".

*GASP*!!!

Tom is not a "wimp". Good thing your husband is straight because he has absolutely no taste in men whatsoever. Hmmph.

Good thing your husband is straight...

Yes, I often find myself thinking the same thing. (although we do share the same skin-crawly feeling whenever we see Willem Defoe...so sometimes our taste in men actually does intersect)

I just wondered since this is more or less the CP
>related board sooner or later nearly every fan finds.
>
>Carmen

Thanks for the kind words and I hope it's sooner than later that the CP BBS is found. Unfortunately, the change in location has caused both the search engines and some of the fan sites to lose the links, so if folks would be so kind as to spread the word, I promise a) to get the "lost" pages back up by the Christmas, to get some new, good stuff up by New Year's and c) to celebrate the fact by running a totally free contest with some very nice prizes that folks donated.

> There is a very good, "unofficial" Yahoo
>discussion group for Wild Card and I think some of us feel
>more comfortable getting down and silly and maybe not even
>being completely politically correct in that group.

Someone's worried about being politically correct here? Socially correct is nice, but politically correct isn't required. I mean, which political group? Reform party? Social Democrats? Libertarian?


The only reason I haven't chimed in is because I've seen 1(!), count it, 1(!) episode because my friend who made me the tape is an SF fan friend, not a media fan friend, so she taped the pilot, then taped a "Monk" episode because she knew I'd enjoyed the ep I saw at her place. *sigh* Shannon, bless her heart, is putting up with me in a week or so where I will promptly commandeer her entertainment unit and indulge in an orgy (get your minds out of that gutter) of video watching.

>I'm really enjoying WC. I even agree with JG that Dan is
>every bit as appealing as Tom Ryan. I do like the slightly
>more shady side of Dan - exthief and all.

I liked the pilot. I'll save my longer commentary for another time, but my biggest complaint is that this is definitely targeting the same audience as the "Women's Fiction" genre and I have the same problem with it that I have with that genre (instead of characterization being revealed by the characters' response to the events in the plot, the plot tends to get driven by creating relationships between characters -- sort of like SS's "Noir" where Tom Ryan forgets not only everything about being a cop but basic intelligence like the fact that since insurance is a legal contract, the insurance company would have copies in their files -- Duh!).

I'm excited to hear that Dan gets to do more in the next eps. I think there's a lot of potential here, although it's obvious the scriptwriters have set up for Fisher's character to connect with the old high school flame and he's suppose to be the "hunk". But CP can easily steal that ball! I felt CP was really doing some nice stuff already, despite having little to work with, in the pilot. I just wish they'd given Rae Dawn Chong more to do. She's really a very good actress. I felt Joely Fisher turned in a good performance, too, although frankly I'm a wee bit tired of the bubbly, perky, sassy, unprofessional woman who runs rings around the educated, competent, professionals. Especially when you add in the "she's also a natural at being a Mom but we can smile at her adjusting to the strange new world of kids" routine. I thought thye kids weren't bad either. Not anywhere near as cutesy as I feared. Could do with a little less teen rebellion, but I'm hoping some of that settles in subsequent eps.

And yes, I did think about breaking down and getting cable (afterall, hockey season is starting, too), particularly since I heard our wretched cable company had been bought by some folks called Wave Broadband. Then I tried to find out what the current rates were...uhm, if your web site is locatable and the only links don't work, why would I trust you to be my "digital broadband access"? So I appreciate reading everyone's opinions and thoughts on the eps because it gives me something to look forward to.

Barb and Pan, I'm talking with Shannon about going up on the 20th. Are you guys still looking at early November, too?

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Oct-08-03 AT 09:05 AM (GMT)]>Barb and Pan, I'm talking with Shannon about going up on the
>20th. Are you guys still looking at early November, too?
>
Since Barb's not good the first weekend in November, I was thinking about the subsequent week. Like the 5th through the 9th. Something like that. Does that work for you guys? After that is my work cycle gets heavy and I won't be able to get away until around the 25th.

Glad you see the potential in the pilot, Carolyn. Rae Dawn does get some nice character development and a gorgeous boyfriend in later eps. Marcos isn't meant to be the only hunk in the Zoe triangle though. In No Bull, the niece Taylor, says something like 'you didn't tell me Dan was so fine'. I think Dan was meant to be the thorn in Marcos' lovestruck-since- highshool-side. Making Marcos the central (and slightly twarted) love interest would certainly fit in with the current media movement to bring latinos into the "mainstream". It also fits with the Lifetime policy of nice guys finish first. I think Chris' charm and his fanbase are knocking Marcos out of the water though and it'll be interesting to see what TPTB do about that.

Hi Carmen,

I liked No Bull - it was a fun episode. The young guy is from the show Black Sash that was on last season. He is cute and I thought they handled the Taylor storyline pretty weel - although I don't think I'd ever have left a 16 year old "home alone" with the kids. I think Zoe would have had to call in at least a nighttime sitter to be believable for me. I have been a little put off by the kids and there rather "easy" transition after the lose of their mother. Only the first show really seemed to deal with any real issues of grief on behalf of the kids - I think it bothers me...and kind of puts me off the kids. I feel like the way they are portrayed, they've been with Zoe for years and mom is truly "out of the picture" for them. But I thought this episode of insecure 16 year old was good and Taylor was done well. I wish they hadn't switched the boy, and I'm afraid I keep comparing the younger daughter to the young sister in Evergreen who I think is great!

I thought the interaction between Zoe and Dan was great - loved them watching each other in the motel scenes...liked that a lot better than the silly porch swing stuff with "the coach". I laughed at the comment that Taylor didn't know Dan was "so fine" and Zoe's "nobody at your work is "fine""! That girls is SO BLIND! LOL.

> although I don't think I'd ever have left a 16 year
>old "home alone" with the kids. I think Zoe would have had
>to call in at least a nighttime sitter to be believable for
>me.

It's from Lifetime's description that Zoe "hasn't quite mastered the art of being an adult yet". So why should Zoe not believe that a 16 year old can care for her younger sibblings. In fact I know a lot of parents who consider their oldest kids to be free babysitters.


>me...and kind of puts me off the kids. I feel like the way
>they are portrayed, they've been with Zoe for years and mom
>is truly "out of the picture" for them.

So far I just know the first two episodes but I guess, if they'd pursue the grief issue too long they'd probably lose the younger viewers, since they surely prefer something more shallow.

>Dan was "so fine" and Zoe's "nobody at your work is "fine""!
> That girls is SO BLIND! LOL.

I read about this comment earlier and loved it without even knowing the entire scene. Lol, it's beyond me to even think Chris/Dan could be anything but fine. The Jed character maybe.


Carmen